This discussion with economist Michael Hudson explores the historical, moral, and political roots of debt, from ancient Near Eastern clean slates to the modern global financial order. Hudson traces how debt shifted from a community-based system of reciprocity into a tool of domination by creditor elites, aided by the medieval Catholic Church and today’s institutions like the IMF. He critiques how interest was rebranded to justify war, inequality, and austerity. Anchored in David Graeber’s anthropological insights, the conversation calls for a reevaluation of how societies treat debt—asking whether finance should serve the public good or perpetuate elite power.